Media has pretty much told us to be fearful of hormones. Detox can be actually added stress to the body. It's not a lack of time. It's a lack of energy. They completely changed their gender or their sex. So you can imagine what it does to people. Curiosity has been taken from us and most of us are even unaware of that fact. Welcome back to another episode of the Homesome podcast. I'm incredibly excited for today's episode. More so than usual, and you'll understand why in just a moment. We have the distinct pleasure of welcoming a guest today who is not only an absolute genius in his field, but also a dear friend. His name is Justin Maguire. In the health and biohacking circles, he is known as the blood detective. And that's a name that couldn't be more fitting. Now, let me clear a few things up. Justin is not your traditional medical practitioner. He is a biochemist and he has an exceptional understanding of medicine and how it should be used. He is not only great in detecting your bloods, but also reading your organic acid tests, your GI maps. Your health is priceless. And the information that Justin gives is absolutely priceless. Justin coordinates a team of top notch doctors at his practice, adopting a unique functional approach to medicine that offers a more holistic view of health. And let me tell you, this man has an encyclopedic knowledge of the human body's metabolic pathways. He's an amazing teacher. He's very knowledgeable. He really is a specialist when it comes to the biochemistry of the body. And he really knows what he's doing and what he's talking about. But what truly sets Justin apart is his commitment to uncovering and addressing the root causes of health issues, not just treating the symptoms. He's been an absolute lifesaver in helping both Miriam and I regain our health, particularly after an entire ordeal with mold exposure, which, by the way, we've documented in a series of videos for those interested. Currently, Justin is visiting us here in Estonia. And we thought, what better time to delve into his vast knowledge and unique perspective on health. So without any further ado, let's get started. Justin, my first question to you then is, could we begin by you explaining your philosophy behind health and wellness and health care and medicine and how does it differ from the Western biomedicine view of health? Thank you so much, guys, for having me on your show. It's absolutely a pleasure to see you guys again. I'm very happy to have you here. And it's an absolute pleasure. Your country is absolutely beautiful, especially in the summertime. Oh, yeah. Justin's here at the best time. At the best time in Estonia, we have just had the summer solstice where we call it Janibau, where Estonians celebrate the longest days of the summer. So after summer solstice, it starts getting darker. And during the summer solstice, it does not get dark here. Remember, we were outside at like 3am and it was completely bright still. And you couldn't tell like sunset apart from sunrise. It was definitely something for my super asthmatic nucleus to have a bit of a kick from. For those of you who don't know what that is, it's a region of the brain that controls your circadian rhythm. So that's something I'm going to ask from Justin as well throughout the conversation to pause and explain all these complicated terms that he's using. Yeah, the complications of the terms aren't necessary to understand. It's good to have an overview of what they mean. But I think what's most important to grasp is what, how and why this type of medicine works so effectively well and what we do in order to incorporate the right type of interventions for the best possible outcome. To answer that in the most briefest possible terms or definition, conventional medicine has really gone into specializing in different areas of the human body, which has its benefits in acute situations of compromised health, such as if you were to have cancer or have broken your leg, as an example, or would require surgery. However, what I feel has has been lacking in conventional medicine over the last few decades is that due to its specialized or due to doctors going to such a specialized fashion of health application and remedy, they've lost understanding of correlation. So let me explain what I mean by this. Causation can always equate to correlation, but correlation doesn't always equate to causation, but nonetheless, it is something to venture into as to contributing factors toward compromised health. So as an example to this, if, for example, your audience being mostly females, if you were to have compromised menstrual rhythm, most notably if you went to your doctor and said you hadn't had your menstruation for, say, six months and a period of time, you might be advised to take some form of hormone therapy. Now, that's not entirely wrong. However, it is short sighted. And the reason for this is there could be a couple of cove infections, such as mold toxicity, such as other environmental disruptors, which can be which could compromise your immunological state, affording the opportunity of foreign entities such as candida or gram-negative bacteria to take hold. And what happens is in the terrain of our bodies, there's a trifecta that needs to communicate and coordinate with one another. And that is the neurological systems, the endocrinological systems and immunological systems. Now, this is where this type of medicine looks at all three of those tiers intimately to see where there's a shortfall, because when one of those tiers has a deficiency or shortfall of of activity, the other two systems will take quite a lot of weight in order to make up for that shortfall. So in essence, why this type of medicine is becoming more popular, not only amongst other scientists like myself, but actual medical practitioners, is because it's taking back that that beautiful, passionate or original love and understanding of the human body from the times of Socrates, from the times of Paracelsus, whereby in these periods of history, surgeons were not only specialists, but were philosophers as well. And the reason why I bring up philosophy and you're probably asking, how does this relate to medicine? Philosophy was the father or the mother to the birth of science. And it is the inspiration of ideas. Now, if we have the inspiration of ideas, we also have the opportunity of innovation taking place. And it's in our capacity to create innovation that we can come up with strategy that otherwise would not have been thought about to solve problems that otherwise people have to have a lifelong experience of disease not being able to overcome. So we utilize philosophical concepts with objective parameters of diagnostic outcomes in order to get the best possible solution toward the trifecta of health, meaning that of the neurological, endocrinological and immunological systems. What an intro. So just to follow that up, what you said there about hormones, we just started by, let's call it a situation a couple of days ago where one of my family friends needed your assistance as all your help. And we met and we talked. And because she didn't speak English too well, then I had to translate. I was sitting next to them next to her. And what you said then stuck with me because what you mentioned is that the treatments that she was given from your point of view, they work, they're good, but if you do not address the hormones first, if you do not get the hormones sort of first, then there's no point in that treatment. And that's what you mean by the I guess the lateral view as well of health. The three pillars, for example. So I guess what I'm getting at with my question here is explain the thought process behind getting hormones sort of first and then addressing the illness and getting the body ready in stages to tackle some states of disease, let's say. Fantastic question. Actually goes against what a lot of functional medicine practitioners believe in. So in the Convention of Functional Medicine, which is kind of a bit of irony to say that Convention of Functional Medicine, most practitioners believe to regulate the endocrine function. And that's not entirely false. It's actually quite true. However, it depends on the situation and also depends on the aging factor. And I'm not just talking about chronological age. I'm also talking about oxidative stress the person's faced due to a whole host of causative factors from emotional stress of having to lose a loved one to catching a disease or some type of virus like COVID. So there's a lot of factors that can rapidly instigate the aging process to come into effect. Now, when this does happen, it's incredibly more difficult for increasingly more difficult for the body to go back into a place of auto regulation of its own endocrine function. Auto regulation meaning regulating itself. Correct. Correct. And this has got a lot to do with how DNA is obviously replicated through RNA expression and how oxidative stress can really impact us. This is why, you know, in the common in the modern day trends or current trends, we say of NAD therapy being all the rage due to the fact that it helps to improve on the expression of RNA, optimally improving, particularly mitochondrial RNA expression. However, this also needs to be aired with caution. So, for example, certain nucleotide therapies like NAD have their part to play, but in the right scene and setting and the wrong scene and setting in the situation of inflammation and immunological compromise, it can actually feel further compromise. And this is where hormones can really come into the equation to provide the right type of solution or resolution toward the body being in a more stable and strong state to contend with any type of disruption that's coming into itself. The way to think about hormones is not what media has taught us, because I think a lot of people, when they hear hormones, they become fearful. So media has pretty much told us to be fearful of hormones due to historically being associated with bodybuilders. Now, I know it's probably ironic, given the fact that I'm sitting here with my muscles and everything else, however, I have had a dark history with hormones in my earlier years, whereby I was a competitive bodybuilder. And I think it actually afforded me a great education of understanding of what not to do. Yeah, basically, because when you say hormones, people in their head conjure images of human growth hormone, testosterone, inject up dudes or insulin. Exactly right. And all three of those hormones aren't necessarily bad if utilized properly and in the right circumstance, even insulin in certain scenarios. So there's a lot of fear around that because there's a general misunderstanding of where and when they need to be applied into the outcome of instigating healing. Why do you think that women are so scared of hormones like hormone replacement therapy during menopause? I think a lot of it has to do with the media that the WHO has put out there. So the WHO has actually demonized, for example, the use of oral estradiol associating it with cancer, whereas actual fact, and this is by a good friend of mine, actually one of the doctors that works with me, Dr. Ahmed Hufferjee and I get into good detail conversation about this. And there are a few experts like Neil Rizier, is probably one of the best guys and Dr. William Seed is also fantastic and where they were able to really uncover the current scientific journals that have been expressed through the WHO and what they were able to find is that WHO being the world health industry or industry. OK, OK. How is that different? What is the world health industry versus the world health organization? Yeah, it's just more of the medical branch from the wealth, world health organization. So it's more about the medical limitations, considerations into toward allopathy applications, so pharmaceutical applications. Yeah. So where the wealth world health organization is more toward the global view of humanitarian projects, preservation of disease prevention and so on, where the WHO is more toward like giving guidelines toward the application of medicines, which is actually quite interesting, which you think about it, because, for example, let me take it a few steps back. So with regards to the WHO, I said about estradiol. It's actually quite erroneous, the statement that they made, because if you look at to the case studies that they project that they were presenting as to back up their claims, they were actually all done on retrospective analysis. They weren't done on any random control trials or any cohort studies, let alone any very low level scientific evidence of case series. But they're actually done on case series retrospective analysis, which is often what insurance companies do in order to validate whether or not the risk is warranted to ensure a particular demographic people. And what they found is that women that had cancer had a high level of estradiol. So they immediately took that as a causative factor, which is erroneous, which is problematic because just because somebody has a high incidence of a hormone doesn't mean it's causative. It can actually be correlative. And if you look into systems biology, you'll understand that estrogen is actually one of the most powerful anti inflammatory hormones to the human body, men and women alike. So when men have poor levels of estrogen, which is often men try to lower their estrogen, which is good because estrogen dominance can also have side effects to it as well. But if men also have low estrogen can instigate massive amounts of depression, serotonin regulation is highly tied in with estrogen availability and particular glycan expression. This has a huge part to play in the availability of estrogen, both men and women. This is another reason why women have less of a likelihood of developing Alzheimer's than what men have because they have higher estrogen levels. But then, sorry, then there is estrogen that we naturally have. And then there are the Xenoestrogens, right? Correct. So the difference there is huge of like how our bodies actually utilize them. Correct. So does it does the the incidence of cancer, do they have anything to do with with the Xenoestrogens that we actually get from our environment? Absolutely right. So it depends on the outcome of either methylation or sulfation of any type of drug. So Xenoestrogens... Can you explain what the methylation is for people who don't know? Yeah, I think it's basically providing a methyl donor. And in doing that, it alters the biochemical makeup of the hormone to create almost like a metabolite expression. So hormones themselves have to go through a process of alteration in order to develop metabolites. And those metabolites actually cause the most similar effect. So the hormones and how they alter in the body actually cause the outcome to their benefit or to their detriment. When it comes to the question or the subject of Xenoestrogens, just to clarify what this actually means, Xeno means foreign and estrogen. So they actually aren't necessarily estrogens as per se, but they're molecules that mimic the structure of estrogens. And in essence, they're drugs, they're foreign drugs, foreign chemicals are coming into the body. The body now has the burden of having to metabolize through the liver. Now, the more of these Xenoestrogens that the liver has to contend with, the lower its capacity to be able to optimally metabolize, either through sulfation or through methylation, your body's innate estrogen production, which means that the outcome of this is compromised feedback mechanism. So the body works on communication. And if there's a surplus of metabolites circulating around in the periphery, the central nervous system is going to eventually start shutting down its own innate production of hormones in order to preserve its homeostatic balance. So if you have a huge amount of foreign estrogens coming in, eventually you will start to experience a variance efficiency, which is whereby the menstrual rhythm or the point periods of either follicular phase or luteinizing phase do not support either the production of estrogen or progesterone to the best possible outcome. And for men, it has to do with feminization of men, kinecomastia, men getting boobs and all these things as well. And just for like the listeners for context, Xenoestrogens that Miriam and Justin just talked about, those are the estrogens in our environment that you are exposed to every day through food, through personal care items, even through shopping receipts that are coated with, like, let's say, BPS or BPA, like bisphenols, or then there are phthalates, also estrogenic that can be found in perfumes or personal care products that have perfume in them. So these are compounds that we are constantly being exposed to. One very strong Xenoestrogen being, let's say, atrazine, which is a common pesticide that's used all over the world. And that atrazine, do you know about the atrazine Toad Study? Oh, so they took toads and they exposed them to atrazine, to basically water that was contaminated with atrazine. And the levels were those of within legal limits, within the safe human exposure limits, and they completely within, let's say, I think it was even within days, less than a month. Definitely this water, this safe limit atrazine exposure managed to change the sex of the toads and some even developed female genitalia. So they completely changed their gender or their sex, biological sex, just from this Xenoestrogen exposure. So you can imagine what it does to people. Yeah. And you can see it also in modern day times how the feminization of, you know, generally younger men has come into effect. And you can see this is not from a subjective perspective or opinionated perspective, it's actually from objective parameters of looking into blood chemistry exams. And in my experience and granted, my experience is obviously limited to a few hundred patients that I've helped over the last six years. However, in my experience of helping a wide diversity of people ranging from the age of 20 right through to seven years old, what I've come to note in my findings is that most of the men that are in their 30s nowadays or even their 20s have actually lower testosterone levels than men in their 50s. And this is definitely an environmental factor that has caused a compromise to testosterone regulation in modern day men. And one thing, one fun thing that was very surprising for me as well, when we talked about my testosterone levels, tying back to the hormone conversation we had before, is when I wanted to increase my testosterone. And I was asking you about TRT and these testosterone interventions, which now I know that we're not supposed to take lightly because once you go on TRT, you have to stay on TRT, correct? Possibly, yes, there's a high probability of that. So if you go on TRT and you wish to come off of it for fertility reasons, you can do so, but there is a probability that it may not take effect in order to reestablish fertility. Just to tie that up and to increase my testosterone, you put me on progesterone instead, which is a female sex hormone. But for men, it's also a precursor for natural testosterone production. And that gave me the best sleep I've ever had, in addition to getting my testosterone up. And the wonderful thing about progesterone as well, also, it's a five aromatase, sorry, five alpha reductase inhibitor. So basically what this enzyme does, it causes the conversion of testosterone into DHT. So not only is it going to lower, because DHT is very excitatory to the nervous system, which can instigate outcomes of anxiety. It also can instigate outcomes of male pattern balding and prostatic hyperplasia. So you can reverse male pattern balding with that? I don't know about reversing it, but I do know you can definitely inhibit its progression. I think when it comes to reversing male pattern balding, one really looks to look into the aspect of fatty acid metabolism and what's going on in the body, which has a lot in terms from a hormonal perspective, has a lot to do with the health of the thyroid and subsequently what impact the thyroid is having in the management of copper and iron. So male pattern balding, I don't believe, is entirely and solely related to accumulation of DHT and specific receptors in the scalp, as what we've been told. I think that could be a contributing factor if there is compromise to the regulation of these very important minerals in the body, being that of copper and iron. But just to go back with what I mentioned before about what you mentioned about why women are fearful of any type of hormonal support. Again, it's because of what the retrospective analysis has shown to be a risk factor. For example, oral estradiol support can cause cancer. Right. So as soon as you hear that, you know, you're going to be not going to be inclined to wanting to take hormonal placement therapy, which if utilized in the right circumstance, can actually delay a woman's onset of menopause by a number of years. My own mother, who's now 60 years old, Hi, mom. Bless the soul. She's still menstruating. And we were able to reestablish menstruation five years ago, putting on the right type of hormonal replacement therapy. Now, for women out there that don't like the idea of having to menstruate, understand it is probably one of the biggest and best advantages you have over men in terms of being able to detoxify, detoxify faulty blood proteins, as well as faulty utility in the use of iron. So an excess of iron can actually accumulate in the nervous system, instigating outcomes of schizophrenia. There's a definitely help me show you share with you this case study. So she indicate this as well. And if you look into the difference between the sexes of who has a higher likelihood of schizophrenia, you also understand why men have a higher tendency to work there, whereas women have a higher tendency toward major depressive disorder because of the difference of hormonal balances. But it's not only that you do need periods still administration for a lot of other health benefits, as you can probably explain, Lane, way better than I could. Cardiovascular disease prevention, diabetes prevention, osteoporosis prevention and all those things. I think that not having your period became sort of a convenience that women go after. So there is certain certain birth control products that actually stop your menstruation completely. Those are the right. Yeah, they're the implants. And but even like the the IUDs, actually, they they really lower your period. And if you think about birth control pills, you when you menstruate, it's not actually a period, it's a pseudo period. Explain to the male listeners now what is a pseudo period. So because you're putting because you're putting synthetic hormones into your body, your body gets confused. Right. There is a miscommunication. This interject one second. So the hormones that actually pill, the concept of Mary's talking about, there's actually hormones, but they're synthetic hormones that have different functional groups attached to them and often these synthetic hormones actually derived from the urine of pregnant mares horses. Fateful thought. So when we have fear of taking hormones, just take into account that a lot of the time women have been taking hormones, but taking the wrong type of hormones. Exactly. So these are not bioidentical. No, definitely not bioidentical at all, which can cause a lot of increased likelihood of cancer as well as infertility, instigating the increased likelihood of PCOS and demyteriosis to quite a huge degree. Right now we have everything backwards. Women are not afraid of the harmful hormones, but they're afraid of the hormones that are actually beneficial to you. I think it all comes down to convenience, really. It's like, you know, it's really convenient not to have your period. So, you know, when it comes to or to have it like regularly, you know, you're actually able to skip your period if you just keep on taking the pills. Because there is a break. I think it's a seven day break. It's 21 pills, seven day break. And if you don't take that break, you just don't get your period. And people do that. Yeah. Like you go on a holiday like, yeah, the girls would do that. The women would do that. So they would definitely not be scared of altering their cycles this way. But then they would be scared later in life to not scared. But just like, you know, it's as I said, it's convenient not to have your period. So as soon as the period starts and the woman goes through menopause, it's, you know, again, convenient. I think the contraceptive introduction, the contraceptive pill has also afforded as to the reason why women, I don't know if any of your audience knows this, have a three to four times greater likelihood of developing hypothyroidism. So women have a three to four times greater likelihood of developing hypothyroidism. And just remember, hormones are interlinked. So just because it's a sex hormone doesn't mean it's not going to have an impact on an amine hormone, which thyroid hormones are. Amine based hormone. And subsequently, once we start to alter the relation between amine hormones and the sex hormones, your peptide based hormones will become desensitized, i.e. insulin. Yeah, a lot of a lot of women, they see that actually develop insulin sensitivity after being on birth control, right? Absolutely. And birth control, to the further point of why it could instigate insulin resistance, is you're giving the body a foreign source of estrogen. And it's also when I say a foreign source, it's not bioidentical and whatsoever. But yet it still has the activity to estrogen receptors. But in terms of how the body is able to distinguish and identify its makeup with regards to its nervous system, reactivity, it becomes compromised. So what happens is over time, the ovaries lose their efficiency in being able to produce natural. They become lazy. And then eventually you can have the outcome of developing increased levels of testosterone. So increased levels of testosterone in women generally has association with polycystic ovary syndrome and that elevation of testosterone in a woman's physique. Some of them might want that because obviously it gives more muscle and everything else. But in instances when insulin is well regulated, often the outcome of elevating testosterone levels in a woman can actually afford the opportunity of insulin resistance to come into effect. Hence the reason why when women do go through PCOS, they normally have weight gain come along with it as well. And infertility. And infertility, certainly. Right now we've gone into the weeds of female health and hormones. So I'm going to hijack this direction and I'm going to take us to a 90 degree turn. So we're not just focusing on this one because I believe we can go on for hours in this direction. So let's do a 90 degree turn and let's go back to like simpler and broader topics. This is something that I think you have a very unique view on is what are your three, the most important three pillars of health and well-being? Yeah, absolutely. It's mind, body and soul. And let me explain. I know it sounds a bit of a cliche, right? You've heard this over my body and soul. But what I mean from is actually from a pragmatic standpoint. So mind being able to continually expose yourself to information that challenges your plasticity or the requirement of plasticity. Like Mary speaks seven languages for those of you don't know. That is really impressive. But she hasn't learned Estonian yet in how many years? Yeah, but Estonia has got how many like? Yeah, Estonia is complicated. 14. What is it? 14 cases. And that's for singular. That's for singular. You then have plural, which is another 14. So it's 28. And 15 of the like 50 percent of all these are exceptions. Yeah, I think you even said being Estonian, you don't even understand Estonia. Yeah, this is a thing that Estonians are still struggling with in like end of high school. You know, yeah. And like most people in their adulthood do not even know how the speakers don't properly. So it is a difficult language. I'm going to give you that. Yeah. But nonetheless, seven languages definitely afford the opportunity of neuroplasticity. And I think this is really important as we get older for us not to start studying or learning something new. We become so complacent. We're not complacent. We become so overwhelmed and leading into complacency. Let me explain what I mean by that. You know, in your 20s, you're studying, having fun, you discovering who you are in your 30s, possibly as well. And then all of a sudden you get married, you have children, you have a mortgage, you have bills and then the focus of your life. If you don't know what's going to come and you don't create balance in your life, can you really shift us to survival state, which a lot of us do and end up going into where it doesn't have to be the case. Right. If we are aware of the fact that we are deserving men and women of having a certain amount of hours every day for our own development, including that of our cognitive development, you know, setting us out. This is why I wake up at four o'clock in the morning when I'm in South Africa, not when I'm here because the sun is out so late. But when I'm in South Africa, I wake up early because it gives me two or three hours in the day before anybody else is up. And those two or three hours, I'm either reading through a research journal or reading a book or continuing on with, you know, I'm busy with the masters. When I finish this one, I'll probably start with another one, not for the accomplishment of having letters, but for the challenge of actually expanding the understanding of my mind. And I think this is something we've actually really become lazy in as a society, you know, especially with universities becoming more of a focal point in the last century of a necessity toward a couple of towards success. You know, we go through our four to 11 years depending upon what you're going to study and what you specialize in university. And then thereafter, once you have this paperwork, we kind of take a backseat. A lot of us do anyway, not all of us. I think this is a big problem. And I'm really interested to see what the next generation are going to do around this, because what I'm finding, we had a conversation about this the other day that generation Z, you call them. And the other generation, the next one is called after generation Z. No, I didn't see why it is the off the millennials, the ones off the millennials. Right. They are now seeing that our generation being that of the millennials and obviously generation prior to the millennial generation, which was generation. Was that indigo? I don't know. Anyway, that generation, generation alphabet, alphabet. Yeah, alphabet. They were they they're no longer disillusioned because they're looking into our generation. I'm 37 now. You're also in your 30s and you're also in your 30s. And a lot of our generation went through the university route, got their degrees, are now still burdened with, you know, university loans, right? Having to repay these loans. So they're looking into this like, you know, what, are we going to go down that route? Are we still going to become specialized? But in our ability to become specialized means that we have to continue being involved in acquiring new information to stay ahead of the curve and to be competitive. And I think this is a wonderful thing. I think it can also be quite a burden in terms of the pressure in order to perform. But on the other side, I think it's a great way of which society always keeps in motion of plasticity and the requirement of cognition. So that's the first big pillar that I think is of massive importance. I'm going to offer an interesting perspective in that as well. I was recently just listening to a podcast that had a good historical take. I do not remember the details, so I might put those down in the show notes. But there was a researcher and I think it was early 20th century. And he was looking into into learning between just school learning and well, actually, I think it was more recent than that, more recent than early 20th. But he was looking into school, like school mediated learning and tutor learning. And he found a two sigma difference in the basically capacity. I don't know the benchmarks he used, but the two sigma difference. What does that mean for people? It's like two standard deviations. So it's like a little two X difference. OK, between the so I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what what markers he used. But basically children that were tutored were two times more capable in each field than children who were who were learning in a school environment. And that that has been replicated. Sometimes the replications did not find a two sigma difference, but they found like, let's say, one point five, one point seven. So still a very major difference. And now everyone has a personal tutor, which is a that I was just showing you yesterday and we were playing around with Chats GPT. It's crazy. And when you have the access to this knowledge like this, once it gets better, once you can learn to trust it more. Imagine if you have a tutors just teaching yourself and people, everything and the education you can get for like from free resources now instead of universities, because Chats GPT knows everything that Harvard and these Ivy League schools know, so you can you can get all the information. You can already get all the information from YouTube. There's like all the Harvard lectures are on there on YouTube. Just let go there and study. You don't need to be inside the university to actually learn these things anymore. But my problem with that is that you completely lose the human connection. It's like all these examples that you listed is basically a person staring at a screen. Well, but what do you go to university for? Do you want to make friends and party and drink or do you want to learn? Not party and drink, but you still you still make connections. It's like, you know, I mean, yeah. But then that's the root of the root of the idea now that universities are places for connection, not actually learning. It's like one of my not one of my my absolute favorite brain coach, Jim Quick. He says that they they ask you to learn at the university, the university schools, but it's like nobody's actually teaching you how to learn. So he's trying to change. He's changing that. He is basically changing the education system by bringing all these exercises and ways of methodologies of like how to actually learn smarter. Yeah, it's meta learning. And it's what you addressed as well. It's like we are learning how to learn better. These constant challenges and the meta learning, meta studying, the meta level of it is goes hand in hand with that, definitely. Yeah. And I also think that just to argue for both of your points, I think there's so many such diversity, such a diversity of personality types. So, for example, some people that are naturally more introverted don't do very well in a university setting because they feel pressure, they feel, you know, they don't feel comfortable having a lot of people around them. And that reciprocity that you normally get from university can be overbearing for them, whereas others that are more open, more communicative, if they were to be behind a chat, GBT segment, they would absolutely destroy themselves in doing or going through that type of learning. So I think there's different forms of learning for different types of personality types. And I think that's wonderful. However, I will say that one benefit of university provides you with the opportunity to establish discipline. So it's not necessarily to say that what you learn from university is so profound that you can't learn it on your own accord. But one thing that does teach you is the discipline of reaching deadlines, right, in filling certain tasks and subject matters, which a lot of people require, you know, coming out of high school into these scenarios and settings. Also gives you freedom of experimentation. Exactly, exactly. And self-expression in that experimentation as well. So I think this. So I just want to make it clear that I am not slating or slagging or criticizing, which is one of the three university attendance. What I am saying is that we should not just stop once we finished our respective degrees. Learning should be a lifelong experience. Second pillar, second pillar is that of the soul. And this can this is very this is dangerous. What's the soul, the third or second? The second, the mind. Sorry, the mind, body. Sorry, the body was second. The soul was the third. Thank you for calling me out, though. So the mind, the body. So the body, just like the soul, just like the mind is very much individual as to what would benefit the person. Some people might like doing weight training, going to the gym and maintaining that type of exposure. Others might prefer going for a walk and others might prefer going to have a session at a yoga studio. But I think what's most important when it comes to the body is to have that meditative, meditative, connected, connectedness with oneself. So, for example, when I go into the gym and I prefer weight training, I actually completely lose myself and I don't even recognize what or who is going around me. And I'm just in that zone of connecting with how I'm moving with myself. Whereas others may feel overwhelmed in a gym setting, they might feel judged. They might feel insecure and they may do better in a setting such as a Pilates class or yoga studio, whereas in the contrast, that I would go to a Pilates class, a yoga studio. I would be so awkward trying to put myself in those positions. I would feel embarrassed. So that's pretty much the body, any activity that allows, affords the opportunity for meditative practice toward introspection. I think that's what, in essence, looking after the body entails. And then that of the soul, which is very individual. Some people are religious, others are more spiritual and some are the combination thereof, and some people don't even have necessarily a spiritual or religious connotation toward a disposition, sorry, towards their expression in their life. However, it doesn't necessarily mean that we need to fit a box in order to be, to fuel our aspect of our soul. I think the soul is actually the embodiment of everything that we know ourselves to be, but it's something that we can't feel or touch, but it's inherent toward our personality or components of our personality. And this is where things such as if you have an aversion towards spiritual practice, whatever it might be, or religious practice, even incorporating psychotherapy practices such as hypnosis or talk therapy can really fuel the growth of one's soul. So whatever resonates with somebody, I think it's vitally important. And to that further point, you know, in practice, I've often seen people come to me with a whole host of biochemical imbalances. And we restore those imbalances and yet they still stay in a state of dis-ease of being uncomfortable in their lives. And it often arises from compromised capacity to integrate and to deal with past traumas. So the psychosomatic component of a person's experience in life should not be ignored. To that further point, it should not be overly emphasized as the soul factor either, because often we are told that what we're experiencing is just due to psychosomatic outcomes. But it's also to be said that you should not neglect that factor in our belief system. And I think Bruce Lipton really goes well into this in his book and the biology of belief and aptly put, you know, we can have the best physiological health, but if we have poor mental health, the way in which we express our physiology will always somewhat be compromised. And Bruce Lipton's teachings are something that I've also followed and definitely integrated in my life back in 2018. So in 2015, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. In December, I had like a whole journey there and everything. But I was always afraid. There was always something in the back of my head that I was feeling good, but I was constantly afraid that I'm going to fall back. If I do anything wrong, that I'm going to lose my health again and everything. So I was living in a state of fear until 2018 when I was traveling. And it's a funny story where I went to the Copa Nyan Island and I figured that I'm going to do some yoga. I have my computer. I'm going to do some work here. It's going to be chill. You know, I'm going to be healthy and just adventure around and vegan. Yes, back then I was a vegan. Thank you for pointing that out. And when I got to the island, as I was exiting the boat, I was sitting in a taxi and I called my business partner, Gaur on the phone, and I was talking to him, doing something on a laptop and the laptop died. It was a brand new MacBook. I just had it for, let's say, two, three weeks maximum, and it died completely dead. I thought the battery was empty. The battery wasn't empty. The MacBook just died. So I was on the island and then I got to my bungalows to the part of the island where I was staying and there was no cell signal, cell service at all. So my laptop was dead. I didn't have any cell signal and I couldn't do anything. So I was forced to this. Exactly. I was forced to this like solitude and time with myself. Then I also hurt my hand, my wrist, so I couldn't do any yoga. And all I had was Miriam's friend, Stephen Cutler's book, Stealing Fire. And that was the first book on biohacking that I read like that introduced me to the concept of biohacking and everything. And I loved the book. And then I was downloading some podcasts when I was in cell signal. So that's when I started listening to podcasts. And my first ever podcast that I ever listened to in my life was one with Bruce Lipton. And he was introducing his biology of belief. And since I had all this extra time on my hands, I started. I was there for a month without my laptop and cell phone basically three weeks alone on the island. So I started trying to program my brain, integrating this biology of belief. And after that trip, after that experience in coming home, I was no longer afraid of my condition, so it really helped me in that way. And I can pinpoint that exact experience as that was the turning point when everything started getting better. And I finally let go of my MS diagnosis and everything that all the weight that was going with that. Absolutely. I think psychological trauma can come through the most subtle means, just like a diagnosis, right? If you think about it, we don't necessarily perceive a diagnosis as being something massively traumatic, but it can be very much so because to be told we're not well and to give valid reasons to why we're not well only further adds weight or contributes towards an idea that's not even our own to begin with. Right. Disease is not an idea that I believe in, yet it's an idea that society believes in, so much so that we categorize the French state of disease, which is also a lot of stress on people. It does. And something I definitely experienced. Yeah. And also our experience in Portugal when we had the mold exposure, which I alluded to in the introduction, we moved into a house that was completely moldy. And within just three days of moving into the house, all the familiar symptoms started coming back to me. I thought something's terribly wrong because I'm having some sort of a regression, but it turns out it was the mold. Yeah. And often most of these autoimmune diseases are actually caused by environment. And we've created such an extraterrestrial environment in the world we live in. No wonder we're in a perpetual state of disease the whole time. When I treat patients, often they ask me, what's wrong with me, and they want a definition. And then obviously you want to revert towards utilizing all the medical prefects or suffix to itis this. And there's no itis. There's nothing inflamed. Well, there is, but let's not use those terminologies. Rather, let's focus on what is your concern? What are your concerns? What are your struggles? And identify the reasons to why the struggles are coming to effect. Like, where is the body struggling at the moment? Rather than putting yourself in a box, you know, it's once you put yourself in a box, it's very, very difficult to find lateral understanding as to the contributing factors that put you in that box in the first place, because then you just start treating the box, you know, start treating you as an individual. And that's the thing. They your diagnosed with cancer, your diagnosed with MS. But both of those diseases have so many underlying conditions or the boxes that have to be ticked for that diagnosis to manifest. So it's not cancer. There's no one cancer. There's no one multiple sclerosis. Yet you're given that diagnosis and you're just like left to deal with the devices and the. Yeah. And the thing about that is that they give people these seriously heavily doom and gloom labels or prognosis. But they don't give them understanding into the mechanisms of how these particular prognosis have an impact on the body. So most people are told, oh, you got cancer or stage four cancer. But I don't even know what that really means. Most people don't even understand the sub molecular biology of what cancer actually does. And I'm talking about people that have cancer, not even given that education. I think that's just ridiculous, right? It's like telling a child that you've got a high school diploma now, but don't worry about getting the education to just go and go straight into university because here's a piece of paper. Right. So here's your piece of paper. You got cancer. Just go into the University of chemotherapy now without understanding why you have the cancer in the first place and what it actually means to have cancer. It's haphazard at best. And I think that's something that really needs to be addressed and that people need to be given the opportunity of education rather than just advocation, which is where I believe integrative medicine comes into the equation. It gives them the power back, right? Rather than just making them a patient, it puts them into the position of being their own healer. Exactly. And understanding what is actually going on and what could have contributed to where they are today and how to get out of it. Exactly. One huge contribution point being then our environment, which is what we're working on and doing nutrition is cool and all like healthy living in a sense that you're working out this cool and all. But environment is so often overlooked. Exactly. It's often the last cause or the last thing that's frontier. Yeah, exactly. That the doctors would look into, would look at. Only very specialized ones that know it as well. But in reality, it should be the first one, which is what we're advocating for. Yeah. And I think the reason why it isn't in the majority of the public is because people are so overwhelmed by information overload in different aspects of life, not just with health. So they become so fixated on a destructive routine. If you tell them to consider something outside of that routine, it feels like such a huge weight. Just to get somebody to start eating healthier, they see it as a burden rather than a blessing. Whereas we all know once you start eating well, within three or four weeks, you're thinking clearer, your joints hurt a lot less, you're sleeping better. So in actual fact, the investment to eating better gives a huge return whereby you have more energy to make the food, which is great. And secondly, you have a lot more hours in the day. There isn't a lack of time. Let's just be honest here. Everyone talks about a lack of time. It's not a lack of time. There's a lack of energy. I think that's the bigger pressing concern is that we all could find time, but we don't all have the capacity to find energy. And this is the big problem that we're facing in society, is that we're all becoming increasingly and more progressively tired. But energy also in the form of mental energy, because if healthy living, if following a healthy lifestyle, if nutrition is not something that you've ever paid attention to, then learning these things and starting to implement, it takes extra energy and extra effort in the form of mental energy because you have to very consciously deal with it. For us, healthy eating is subconscious. We just make healthy choices because this is how we've been living for years. It doesn't take anything from us. But as opposed to somebody who's now just starting out, they have to put a lot of effort into it. And I can see how that's exhausting and overwhelming. Yeah, that's why some people just like don't embark on that journey at all, because they get overwhelmed in the first place. I was interviewed last week for a local newspaper, and the journalist was asking me to give her a list of chemicals to avoid in personal care products, and I'm like, if I give you the entire list and you're going to put it out there, you know, it's not going to do any good. People are just going to stop reading or they're going to be like, this is too complicated. So we need to look at where to start and where to look, where to make the small changes that are easy that we can implement immediately to actually clean up our environment. Completely agree. The funny thing about that is if you take the initiative to put, for example, air filters in your home, water filters in your taps, just something as basic as those two different modalities, let alone smoggers that get rid of mold and all the other good things. That can make a huge difference in terms of the quality of your skin. I mean, reason as to why we're so fixated on beauty products is because we don't feel confident in ourselves and in ourselves being the primary word in ourselves. And what comes from within will be expressed from without. Sorry, on the outside, not without, on the outside. So the moral to all this is if you focus on improving and repairing your internal health by altering the environment that your internal health has response to, your beauty becomes natural because you start to feel more confident in yourself, which means that you have less of a reliance on putting on base filler mascara and all the other things which have their part in society. And I'm not disputing that. But I think we especially women, unfortunately, have become so reliant on it due to society historically, really bringing women down, you know, in terms of their femininity and the expression of them also just being human, it's like aging for men is sexy, but for women, she's letting herself down. She's letting herself go. Yeah. So there's a huge, huge difference. That's why I like, you know, we dye our hair, we put on a lot of makeup and we do all these things, you know, like plastic surgeries and stuff. I mean, nowadays, even men, like they can go to Turkey, I think it was, to get like hair transplant. It's a running joke in our circle. Yes, exactly. We're all going to fly to Turkey to get hair transplant and have a magnificent hair. Yeah, but it's true. Much better. Now I can't wait to have like fully gray hair, gray hair, be the 60, really muscular completely ripped and done on like a nice custom suit and just like walk around. Yeah, exactly. Like embrace the aspect of life's different chapters, right? They all have their benefits and beauty can be seen in subtleties of a person rather than just what society has deemed what beauty should be. And often the idea of what beauty is in society's eyes is so far from the fact. Right. It's actually it's a cloned state. But beauty can also still be done in a healthy way, which is using non-toxic products, of course, as opposed to whatever's on the store shelves. But it requires, again, conscious effort, knowledge, research. But also to that point, I think especially with females, with women, if I speak to friends of mine, let alone patients of mine, about the money, the volume of money that they have spent on beauty products in the last year, let alone last 10 years, if they were to redirect that investment toward means which would improve the internal health. Firstly, their skin would look 10 times better than using all those products. It really would. And secondly, not only are you going to look better, but you're actually going to feel the way in which you're trying to present yourself to the world. So it's just a question of what's the priority toward the investment. Utilize no natural cosmetic products. Fantastic. Please, by all means, utilize them. But if you are constrained to a certain budget and you are having issues with your skin, first figure out what's going on with inside yourself that's contributing toward your skin not being in a state of health. The skin is our biggest surface area organ in the body. So it is an organ in its own right. And if you're having blemishes, acne, psoriasis, and all these things come up, it's because of something that's going on within a systemic effect into your physiology that's causing poor health. Just an example of when women break out on their chin, that's usually progesterone imbalances. And then when you fix that, the breakouts go away. Whereas a dermatologist would put you on some sort of a cream or a pill antibiotic, something that will fix it on the surface, but not really do any good to you internally. So I get this question a lot. What's your take on juice cleanses? What's your take on detoxes and stuff? And I always tell people, it's like, I'm not a fan, to be honest. I don't think that they're healthy in the way that they're being done by most people. And our bodies are naturally capable of detoxing these environmental toxins. The problem is that today we are exposed to supernatural levels of toxins. So what's your take on the detox protocols? And where do you start with someone who, let's say, I come to you and I'll be like, I really want to go on a detox. I really want to go on a cleanse. Yeah. This is an interesting question. I think most people think it's a very simple question, but it's really not. It's not. You have to understand one thing. When you increase the body's detoxification process, there is going to be some form of debt that's going to be ensued from that process, from that heightened process, and often that debt comes from metabolism or has an impact, not comes from, so it has an impact on metabolism. So before anybody embarks on any detoxification protocol, whether it be that of clearing out the liver or whether it be that of clearing out the guts or the lymphatic system as a whole, you really need to assess first and foremost, what are the metabolic endocrine hormones doing in the support of the detoxification effort? Last thing you want to do is go through the detox, feel great, only to have a rebound a few weeks later, which is often the case. Well, what I often see is that people on day three on these kind of detoxes will feel horrible, they'll feel like that because their body becomes more toxic than it was because the body is not able to eliminate the toxins that that it's trying to expel from from the tissue and from the from the organs correctly if I'm wrong. But but yeah, so they come day three and people are like, oh my God, I feel so horrible, I feel even more sick than I than I did before. Yeah, and to be honest with you, that is not uncommon. It's not necessary to say that they feel ill during detoxification, that it's not working, depending upon what they're storing in their fat cells. In particular, this can really cause a heightened symptomatic expression of illness. However, it's very important to note whether or not the body can contend with the liberation of those toxins and whether or not the post detoxification is not so much. It is to a certain degree what goes on in the detoxification period because you don't want to overwhelm the body to the point where you have cardiovascular strain or psychopathological strain. Just remember, anytime you're increasing detoxification, psychopathological, yes, like depression or anxiety, they might come through it as well. Any time that you're increasing detoxification, you're going to increase activity of the kind you're in a protein pathway, not to get bogged down into the ATP to fuel the immune players to be able to surmount a defense, whatever has been detoxed. But in doing this, if you prolong the effect of the kind of an approaching pathway, it has a compromising impact into neurotransmitters, both that of dopamine as well as serotonin, which can induce depression. So anybody that has got any history of anxiety and depression really need to air a caution before they approach a detoxification. Not to say that they shouldn't detox, but to say they really need to set the scene before they do. What about regular stress? Like people are stressed out. Like, I think that from my perspective, detox can be actually added stress to the body. Most certainly is. It's a form of hormetic stress detoxification. Certainly. I still think I'm in agreement with you. I think the best way in order to get rid of toxins is to first assess a person's environment where they live and eliminate the toxins from from the surroundings rather than and also eliminate emotional toxins. I think, you know, more often than not, when people come to me with this Aladdin poor autoimmune states, they have some form of emotional trauma for whatever reason that they're not contending with or that they've tried to suppress. And the thing about this is why I said this, the three factors that really need to be addressed. Emotions have a huge part to play in the structural brain elements, sorry, structural regions of the brain. As just to give you a little bit of background history during the period of neural development, young girls are far more susceptible to depression than young boys are because of the rate of which the anterior insula and amygdala develop. Now, I remember you telling me about this. So this is quite interesting because when there's a disassociation between these two regions of the brain, there can be a massive sympathetic overload, meaning that although the stress isn't necessary to say overwhelming, the perception of stress would be overwhelming. So when we approach detoxification for anybody, it's very important to think, what are the emotional toxins that the person is dealing with? And then looking into lifestyle, looking into the environmental toxins that the person is dealing with. There's no point trying to push detox if you're constantly exposing yourself to toxins, because in essence, you're just putting water into a boat with holes in it, hoping that it's going to float at some point, which it's not, which it really isn't. So before approaching a detox, figure out what are the toxic variables in your life and contributing factors, look in ways in which you can either contend with those factors, because sometimes difficult to eliminate them entirely. Some people have family members that they wish they could get rid of, but they can't. That's true. It's life. So it's important not to want to get rid of them, but rather learn how to deal with them so that their emotional weight doesn't accept them and accept them. Create a distance, create a distance in a healthy manner. And psychology has a great if you understand the basics, not even the complexity of the basics of psychology, you can do so without offending anybody, right, without even realizing that you're creating distance from them. So I think that's very important. But detox protocols, the reason why they're so popular is because they come with a promise of rapid transformation. And we are a society that's how bent on instant gratification. Yeah, instant gratification, I think, is one of the biggest reasons why we're in a state of disease, regardless of technological improvement, because it's dopamine dominance and poor atriptamine receptor activity. And there's a whole host of factors that have caused this impact, particularly the advancement of technology, as you guys have spoken about in many of your other podcasts about the impact of artificial light and what it does to the brain. But to that further point, because of all the environmental toxins and the impact it's having on compromised serotonin production, our tryptamine receptors aren't getting engaged or activated in the way in which they should. Tryptamine receptors in the brain are one of the most ancient receptors in the brain. And when we do not facilitate them, our free and independent thinking becomes compromised and we become more addictive in our personality. So we start seeking things out like sugar, drugs, alcohol, sex, and not in a healthy way, but in a destructive way. What's causing that, though? It's because of instant gratification in society. Yeah, if you look at the revolution of introduction of refined sugar. So dopamine has its benefits as well, provides more motivation toward getting involved in analytical projects or even, for instance, motivation toward a creative project. In essence, the way I like to think of dopamine, it should be the spark to the wood that induces the fire, but the wood should be your tryptamine. However, we've been so engaged in sparking our minds that eventually that wood, that pile of wood has deteriorated. And now we're constantly trying to keep a fire going by lighting a flint rather than actually lighting wood. And it should do with like sugar being introduced into society. At the same time, sugar is introduced to society. So too was the technological industrial revolution progressively increased in its outcome of activity. So there are benefits in terms of progression in society, but it comes at a cost. And our most recent introduction of a dopamine agonist is that of technology, artificial technology that's actually caused our brains to get an immediate fix. I mean, Andre, you're an analytical human being, a media expert. And you know that sometimes we had a conversation about this. Sometimes you can get lost in data coding for hours or even days on end. And the reason as to why is because every single time you get that formula right with the code, it gives you a sense of gratification. But I mean, I would I would consider that even like a beneficial, let's say, output or use of my dopamine receptors, as opposed to children on using a laptop, an iPad and a phone at the same time, watching three different things on three different screens. Absolutely. That's that is it's constructive. Look for a way in which you're using your the dopamine affecting your brain is constructive toward contributing to helping people in society. So that's a great plus. But nonetheless, regardless of the outcome being constructive, we are still altering our structural brain elements and how receptors in our brains have now been engaged in recent times, whereas, you know, our innate spiritual psychic, even goes far as saying psychic capacity has deteriorated over the last few centuries because we've become so hell bent on technological advancements and instant gratification that technology provides us with that our tryptamine receptors have really downregulated. And thankfully, due to the reintroduction, because it has been around in the past of psychedelic medicines, we are once again being able to get those receptors facilitated. And one of the biggest reasons why they actually work, which people don't actually talk about, is because those receptors have been downregulated by our own biochemical compromise. So inefficiency of our own biochemistry to synthesize these neurotransmitters in a way that they should be has caused an increased need for these psychedelic aids to actually recruit those receptors because we no longer have the capacity to do them at the level which creates transcendental thinking, creating opportunity of innovation for people such as Socrates and Plato were able to create many, many millennia ago because they were well balanced in the activity of their brains, being that of both analytical but extremely creative, not hell bent on instant gratification, but nonetheless still dedicated to the discipline on the outcome of discovery in their lifetime. And easily getting into low state. Exactly. Yeah. And that's what one of the outputs when you follow your curiosity. Very much so. And that thing is to be curious. That is the most important thing you said there. People have lost curiosity and curiosity has been also taken from us. Absolutely. That's hence the reason why you're actually I retracted a statement. You are more accurate. You are more accurate in what you said. Curiosity has been taken from us. And most of us are even unaware of that fact, which is which is the travesty in what we are facing. But fortunately, we are becoming more and more aware. And as David Hawkinsworth says, through understanding comes willingness and through willingness, one can gain courage in order to create the outcome of peace and love in life. So this is where the aspect of power over force in his in his writings. I love so much. One of the best philosophers, psychologist, in my opinion, has given us and afforded us opportunity in the modern day times to be able to transcend from the suppression of. Previous times, previous media mentions, previous societal norms into creating our own individual groups and communities which break away from the status quo of what society has asked of us or has deemed we should be. And I cannot find a more better point in this conversation where to start wrapping it up, where to actually wrap this up. Justin, it has been a complete pleasure and a mind blowing experience. We went on, as we said in the beginning, we went very laterally in all different directions. And I'm just amazed by your wealth of knowledge and how you make these connections. No wonder you mapped out the entire human metabolic pathway in your head that you can recite in your sleep. We have a road trip to get to. We're going to be late. Otherwise, we're going to be back too late. So looking forward to that. Autonomic coaching, autonomicoaching.com, autonomicoaching on Instagram. I'm going to include all these links in the show notes below. Justin, is there anything else anywhere else people can reach you or any asks where the audience can check out your work? Yeah, if they want to reach out to some email as well. autonomicoaching.com. I've also written a few books, ARP3 for those fitness enthusiasts. That's an old book from my previous times in the fitness industry. For those who are looking to inspire more of an educational front and understanding of the human body practitioners, i.e. reach out to us via email. I've written in a textbook, which gives a good fundamental understanding into the process of neurology, biochemistry and physiology. But apart from that, I think the most important thing to take home is to not take life too seriously in order for us not to take your life too seriously. We really need to understand that what we've created in the life that we live is very, very serious. So we've got to break that mold and go back to more natural ways of being and that means being more authentic to ourselves and others around us. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to be a monk. You don't always necessarily have to live up to all the biohacking ideals, but you can incorporate certain components of them in order to liberate yourself from the chains that society has put you in to a serious state of living. So have fun and enjoy life. And remember most of all that you deserve to be loved and you also deserve the opportunity to love others. Awesome. And my ask to the audience is that you head to homesome.com forward slash snapshot. That's homesome like who, me, some kind of like wholesome but with an M because it's a very wholesome and we deal with homes, healthy, wholesome homes. And homesome.com forward slash snapshot. And you can take the healthy home quiz, healthy environment quiz, just 13 questions, and that quiz is going to assess the state of your environment and give you a score. And then it's going to give you personalized recommendations on the areas that might need your attention, areas that you can fix to lower your total toxic burden and to generally make your environment more healthier so that your body can begin to heal itself so that you're not exposed to as many nasty things that we certainly discussed in this podcast. My name is Andre, my co-host, lovely co-host Miriam here. This has been the Homesome Podcast and see you next time. Thank you for joining us, Justin. Thank you, guys. Thank you. So media has pretty much told us to be fearful of hormones. Curiosity has been taken from us and most of us are even unaware of that fact. Detox can be actually added stress to the body. It's not a lack of time, it's a lack of energy. So they completely changed their gender or their sex, biological sex, just from this Xenoestrogen exposure. So you can imagine what it does to people. So media has pretty much told us to be fearful of hormones.